Episode 88 – Getting Candid about Money Mindset & Financial Health (Interview with It’s Humble)

Getting Candid about Money Mindset & Financial Health (Interview with It's Humble) by Astra Financial

Let’s talk about money and mindset. 👇

How you think about money has a lot to do with how you make and spend it.

And when you feel yourself getting stuck in a place of scarcity, there are things you can do to redirect your mindset to a more helpful place.

Whether it’s just for you or your planning financially for your family, creating a healthy relationship with money matters.

Discover how you can do that in a few simple ways by tuning in here.

Show Notes:

Welcome to Heart of Your Money, the Retirement Prep podcast for busy professionals wanting Real Money talk. Hosted by Zena Amundson, author, certified financial planner, and founder of Astra Financial. In every episode, you’ll get exclusive access to Juicy money details to get you retirement ready and feeling confident about your next money move.

Hey there. Welcome today’s episode is a conversation with two amazing women. Janelle is the founder of It’s Humble. Humble was founded as a collaborative mission to streamline and innovate access to mental health and wellbeing, content, and services. We all need that. Check out her website, it’shumble.com.

She’s interviewing myself and my good friend and fellow certified financial planner, Nicole Putz. Nicole and I have collaborated before and she brings so much knowledge and fun to finances. Today’s conversation is about financial health. Think about the money conversation in your head. Is it a healthy one?

We talk money, mindset, beliefs, and try to get candid, hope you enjoy.

Janelle: Welcome. I am so excited to be here today. I am Janelle Crandall with Humble and we are doing a takeover on the Heart of Your Money podcast today. At Humble, our mission is to collaborate with professionals to curate different tools and resources to support mental well-being. And when we think of our mental health, we often don’t really think about our relationship with money. But there is a very interesting connection between money and mental health, and I’m excited to dive into that a bit today with Nicole and Zena. Nicole Putts and Zena Amundsen are both certified financial planners and are experts in their own respective fields. They are both so passionate about supporting women to build and strengthen their own financial confidence and wealth. So thank you so much, Zena and Nicole, for letting Humble come in and do a takeover on the podcast and allowing us to interview you today.

Okay, so there is a lot of talk about money mindset and financial empowerment. Can you explain a little bit about what this means? 

Nicole: Totally. So what I see, like in terms of I guess like money mindset and empowerment from the clients that I usually work with, and I guess I’ll say like for the most part, like I’m working with millennial professional women, and so when I’m working with those types of clients a lot of the time like I think the word that also comes up in terms of empowerment is just and it is a buzzy thing now, but like financial freedom and it just like having the independence financially to make choices that you don’t have to get pushed into things. Like you get to call the shots, you get to just make decisions that are right for you, whatever that looks like. And so I think that like coming from, women in their like twenties, thirties, and forties, like that’s a big part of empowerment. Like I don’t have to rely on anyone. I don’t have to, look to someone else to find financial security or independence or whatever it is. It’s just very much like I’ve done what I need to do to put those blocks in place to basically, yeah, make the choices or make the decisions that I want to make and whatever that is. It can be anything. So I think that’s a big thing I see lately. Are you seeing that too, Zena?

Zena: So right now in this volatile economic world and geopolitical, we’ve got wars, we’ve got economic coming out of we’ve got the big R word recession and coming out of a downturn in 2022 and finances and inflation. So you mingle all that together and I think that financial empowerment is really controlling the things that you can control. And so it means if I’m starting to feel like the world’s out of control, where can I actually start to gain some of that power back? And that’ll be in our finances. And so when it starts to feel out of control in the world, and then your finances start to feel out of control, that’s where all that stress comes in, mental health and that’s why financial empowerment is gonna mean different things to different people, but it’s essentially controlling what you can for our mental and financial health. 

Janelle: Yeah, I love that, what you said about control, focusing on controlling what you can control. So when it comes to your relationship with money and your mindset towards that, how do you help your clients focus on those things that they can control? Or how do you shift them into that positive mindset around finances and money?

Nicole: I know on our end so I work with my dad and like both, and Janelle but yeah, like we, it’s always like bringing people back to the original plan and saying, listen, this is why we put a plan in place, to begin with and so when things do start to feel, out of control or you Zena alluded to, like when the world is happening and there’s nothing we can really do about it. We say, listen, like, we planned for this, and there are things that we can’t, predict and that’s fine, but it’s, yeah, it’s always going back to the foundation, there’s a reason we put a financial plan together in the first place and we always just bring it back to base one and say, okay, what, why did we come together in the first place? Or what did we talk about initially? And yeah, like that’s, that’s something for sure that we do to help mitigate, I guess. 

Zena: Yeah, that financial plan is gonna help alleviate stress. And so I imagine, Nicole, you know when things are going down on the market temporarily or there’s that feeling of uncertainty, it’s okay, but here’s point A to point B. We know it’s not a straight line. We know there’s a little bit of bumps in there but here’s where we’re going. And I think, yeah, it brings so, so much confidence. And then lately too, it’s also just revisiting cash flow what’s coming in versus what’s coming out. Yeah. And that brings a huge awareness, and that’s part of that financial plan that’s about revisiting that plan and saying, okay, are we still on track? And that’ll alleviate a lot of the stress and bring us back to that breath ugh. Okay. Yeah. , remind me again. We’re good.

Nicole: Yeah. Oh, for sure. And I find too I don’t know if this is the first time just as, and this is an aside, but as an advisor myself or a planner myself, I’m noticing like my clients, cuz this is the first time we’ve really had skin in the game and experienced a shit storm, which was 2022 in terms of markets, and so it is, it’s in a way, it’s a good thing because, we can always hypothetically be like, yeah, I’d. , I’d be fine if my investments did X or this happened, and you really don’t know until it’s happening. So yeah, for a lot of my clients and myself concluded this is the first time. Yeah, we’ve had some real skin, some real money in the market. So it’s yeah, we’re actually experiencing it firsthand versus just knowing what happened, say 2008, 2009 for example, and just saying, yeah, that sucks, but I think I’d be fine. 

Janelle: I was like, okay, so this is our second rodeo. 

Nicole: Done it before. Yeah. 

Zena: And everyone’s yeah, I know we’ve been through this before, but it’s that first time or that first time client. It’s okay, this is our first rodeo. And it just builds confidence each time sitting across from someone when they pull out that plan and they’re like, yeah, okay, we’re getting there.

Janelle: Yeah. So one other thing I’ve seen trending on social media and different sites is talking about your money story and where that comes from and so we all have a money story whether we realize it or not and so how do you help your clients understand what that is and translate that into the work that you do with them kind of building out their overall financial plan.

Zena: Yeah I think really I always come back to what’s your first memory? , what’s the very first thing you can remember that has anything to do with money? Like just a vague, knowing that you might be young and you don’t realize it’s about money, but it has that financial property and piece to it. And what’s that first memory? And if you just sit and listen and even just yourself and thinking about, you know where that is, you’ll come up with something and then you’ll be able to put together the pieces of the puzzle of oh yeah, okay. And generally, it comes from a place of scarcity or abundance. And I know that there’s a mishmash over years, but usually, that memory will be one of those two things. And so that memory sometimes sticks with you through life. And I’m not sure, Nicole, your dad’s a financial planner, so there might have been some really subliminal, but really, conversations there that maybe a lot of us have missed. Yeah. Maybe growing up with someone, that dealt with finance. 

Nicole: Yeah. It’s, it’s funny, like when I think back to when I was younger, like I, I kind of say I, it did, I think like you’re right in saying like maybe like unconsciously these things are getting drilled into my head and I just didn’t even realize it at the time but I remember being younger, we would just always be like dad’s got it, Dad does that. He’s got it. We don’t have to worry. He’s got it. , which is funny, but you’re right. Like in terms of just I even think like rider games was like a thing for us and my dad always took cuz there’s two, I have two sisters and so there’s three girls in our family and my dad would always take us to rider games and I remember when we were younger, it was like we went to the game, that was great, but like no refreshments, no candies, nothing. And like we, that was just always we knew that was fine. And then I remember getting it must have been in university or something, and my dad and I went to a game and he’s yeah, do we wanna get hot dogs? And I was like, what? I was like, are you serious and in my head I was kinda like, like he was, just making I guess that was his way of making the right financial decisions and when he was younger and that, now that he was older, it just didn’t, I don’t know, didn’t matter as much I guess, or he was just like, oh, he felt like in a good place. So like, it sounds so silly, but I was just like, oh, it’s so funny cuz like growing up Yeah, it’s he wasn’t spending. Frivolous things. It was just, so I, there probably was little things that I just didn’t even realize. Yeah. But that’s funny cuz Yeah, I used to just be like, dad’s got it. I remember all of us would be like, dad’s got it. it’s fine. 

Zena: that, that’s what my youngest is saying now, cuz she, first job and looking at her taxes and, choices and she did her tax-free savings account and she’s, oh my God, What would I do without you being a financial planner? I’m like we’d have to talk a lot more about this at home, but those memories they stick with us, and so I’m gonna venture and think that, in probably having to buy all those overpriced drinks and hotdogs for three people four, including your dad. That’s super expensive. And so it’s really about putting value on, okay, what is truly important to us and what do we wanna spend the money on? A, we can come all together and enjoy this, or we can not go often. And maybe not go to games at all because we want all or nothing. And so it’s a really interesting piece of bringing value and understanding that, we’re gonna respect the price of things and we can still enjoy it without going all in. And so that’s an interesting thing that you learn and there’s also an appreciation so that when you did get to go to college, Oh, this is so awesome. It’s like my first car with air conditioning. So there’s an appreciation piece there. 

Nicole: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you’re right. That’s exactly what it was like. Yeah. And in school, thinking about it now, cuz yeah, there was definitely a lesson to be learned, but at the time I just didn’t even know or care or have any idea what was going on. But yeah, 

Janelle: I really liked what you said about bringing value to what’s really important to you. And so do you see that connection to understanding your money stories and going back to your first memory and building that forward important in, in helping establish those values and what’s important to you and how you can integrate that into the decisions you’re making on a day-to-day basis or longer term with your money. 

Zena: Yeah, I think, when it comes to having a partner in life and you’re making these decisions together talking about the past, right? How did you grow up with money? What is your first money memory, sharing with your partner these answers, and then that discussion’s gonna actually open up into the values discussion, so what is important to you? What does money buy for you or mean for you? Or what is, what are your top values? And it goes beyond money and finances, that’s actually a healthy relationship. So that’s the piece. And we actually have a values map that if I feel, if, in the conversation, we need to go one step further. I’m like, okay, let’s pull out this map. And it’s what’s your top priority, money priority right now? What’s your money priority? And then you try and weave it all together to get them on the same page, or at least come in halfway or come up with something because if you’re on two completely different paths and your money stories, and it’s true, you’ve seen, you can, Nicole, you’ve probably seen these partners who have two completely different money stories and risk tolerances having to come together and try and, come up with the same path going forward. Sometimes that can be a bit of a challenge, but communication is big. 

Nicole: Yep, for sure. Yeah, I think you’re right. It’s just, and I guess that’s part of our job too, is just opening the lines of communication like I think sometimes people, they know they should talk about it, but it’s in the best way possible. It’s like you’re forced to talk about it when you start working with the planner, which is a good thing. You just, yep. Everything’s on the table.

Zena: wish the priest that married us in his baby blue tux had done that. You can go to the marriage classes. It would’ve been like, okay, so how do you like to spend your money? Do you save, do you not what’s your first money memory? Because we never did any of that. And so you just go along the kind of playing it by ear along the way. But that would’ve been nice back in 1996.

Nicole: Yeah… Yeah, no, it’s yeah and it’s something I can say too, just in, I guess like on that note is I find too having your memories and just focusing on yeah, like how did you start to value money early on and all that kind of stuff. And I see even now, like in terms of money story, people, social media is a big thing now, and I think a lot of people start to look to social media as like a barometer. So whether you have a good money story or not, I think you start to question sometimes whether you’re, I don’t know, doing the right thing or not doing the right thing. So that kind of. Can both hurt and help you depending on how you look at it. And so I think people are kinda nature, right? Yeah. Like the kind the Joneses type, right? Like it’s tough for people out there. Like I think, and Zena, you and I are so fortunate in the sense that we get to pull the curtain back and actually see what’s going on. Cause I think people like to talk too and people are never telling you the full. Never. 

Zena: And one of the common questions is, so is this normal? Are we on average? Are we on par? Is this how everybody else is? And it’s hard because you’re thinking like you’re a completely independent, different person, and so this plan is completely different from what you need in retirement or down the road, and your emergency savings is completely different than what somebody else needs. But we’re always, you’re right. I think social media and access to everything. , out there is trying to put us on this. Okay. Where do we fall? I and I, even write down to the newspaper that wants to give Five stars to three stars. Four stars, five stars. And I’m like, we’re all five stars… Yeah… Exactly. You got a financial planner, you’re already, that’s a three-star. You’re really good. 

Nicole: Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, totally. It’s like you’re already, 10 steps ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Which is also why Janelle humble is so great. 

Zena: Yes. Bring. And even talking about it. Cause that is one of the hardest things to talk about, and I’ve said this before, we would much rather talk about sex, would much rather talk about intimate details of spouses and you name it than we will about finances and, saying to your buddy and your best friend Hey, are you guys on par? Do you feel like you, you have a healthy relationship with money? No, we’re not gonna have that. No, I’m gonna complain about, my husband leaving the toilet seat up. I’m not gonna talk about my money. 

Janelle: That’s so true. And I like what you said too about the social media aspect and the difference really between reality and what we see out there on. Social media, that’s the perceived truth and what’s actually happening. And we often compare ourselves to what we think is happening and then fall into that trap of kind of compare and despair. It’s I’m not good enough. I’m not doing this right. And all of these things. We’re, you’re comparing in some cases to A tainted perception of reality really and so yeah, your comment about you guys being able to pull the curtain back and see the real truth, we don’t have access to that. So I think it’s just that reminder to do what’s right for you and connect with the people that are there to support you and yeah, focus on yourself and your own family and their priorities, and not fall into that trap of comparing and yeah, selling yourself short to others.

Zena: There’s an Insta it’s on … it’s, I think it’s on Instagram and a deep midnight stroll. And I should not be, cuz I’m trying to put my phone down and electronics, but, and I think it’s based, it’s in the States and there’s the guy asking, can I see where you live? And he’s in New York and he takes you into the New York flats and they, he tells them what they pay per month. There’s another one with, can you tell me how much you make? And I’ve been watching it and I think those ones are more like LA  and somewhere warm in the states. It can’t be real. And I’m like, as a certified financial planner, I’m like, this can’t be real because it’s younger people and they’re like, I have 4 million in the bank. I have, like $60,000 in the bank right now. Because he says, what do you have in your checking account right now? And they’re coming up with Insane, Absolutely insane numbers. And it’s bringing a red flag of a, why are you holding onto that much cash? Do you not know like even a GIC right now? Come on. What are you doing? Hold onto that amount of cash or you’re not investing it. And then the other one is there’s absolutely no way that you have three or 4 million. And then what do you do for a living? it doesn’t match. And so I’m sucked into the comparison and I do this for a living and I’m sitting there judging point. There’s no way. Yeah. Yeah. You’re right, that’s a huge one, I think right now that we’re getting sucked into without even realizing, is social media comparison. 

Janelle: That’s, yeah. It’s tough… So once we understand what our money story is and some of the history that we have with it, what can you do with that? Or what do the next steps and path forward look like? 

Zena: I think and that’s part of the conversation each time and check-in. And so if you do have a partner and you’re working on this path and plan, this is just about doing a check-in. Like, how are you feeling right now? Because once you do that, Money, memory, and if it is coming from a place of scarcity. We have these things that we say all the time, and it can be like, oh, money, it doesn’t grow on trees. And right down to, oh, the bills come and you’re like, oh, I’m so broke, I can’t even pay the bills. You can. It’s just a saying that we’ve grown up with. And so we have this negative and scarcity mindset, and I think it’s once we can be aware and you have those check-ins with a partner and you just like, so for example, for me, years ago we’d have these Sunday check-ins and it would be. I’m feeling really scarce right now. Like I got scarcity and it’s okay, so why everything’s fine? I’m like, I don’t know. I just feel like it’s not enough like we’ve got things coming up and you get overwhelmed. And I think that’s a common thing right now in life is that we’re bombarded, we’re overwhelmed. We have 24 /7 devices, like I said, at midnight, I’m looking at my phone and I shouldn’t be… And so our brain is going in constant. And I think that by slowing down and saying, Hey, where is this coming from? And is it actual reality? Or am I building it up more? And I think that’s why the memory or money story matters is because then you can bring awareness and say, okay, no, we’re not I’m not really broke. I’m not really scarce, it’s just that bills all come in at this time or in September, or October. Kids’ activities all start up. And it’s about that overwhelm. You feel like you’re so broke cuz you’ve just written you, or just sent you know, payment for the rest of the fees for football or something or kids’ hockey. So just bringing awareness and talking about it will bring that anxiety and level down. And so that’s what that memory story does is help you realize, okay, wait, is this a real thing or is this, me getting stressed out?

Nicole: Yeah. It’s so nice to hear too, Zena. It’s coming from obviously both you and I work in this financial industry and like we still feel these things. It’s not like it’s very human to feel this scarcity mindset every so often. And just like you said, like depending on what time of year, like Christmas is huge right? Everything’s leaving your bank account cuz you’re buying gifts for everyone. Like it’s, we all feel it. It’s not Yeah, so it’s, that’s also I think a good note for people. It’s like you’re not the only one feeling this, like people who do this for a living feel this as well. Like it’s, yeah. Yeah. And like you said, it’s just, I think identifying. I guess as like a comparable like I even think of actual financial plans as well. Like we always say, people come in and they say, I’ve been saving, just saving. And I’m like saving for what? And they say I don’t really know. And I say, okay, until the money has a goal or until you can name it, then it’s, yeah, it just feels like you’re just like throwing money at the wind and just hoping something happens and like you’re saying Zena like that’s the whole like money memory thing. Unless you, until you’ve named it and say, okay, like this is how I feel about this and this is why. Then you can start, even though those feelings are gonna crop up, you’re gonna feel like, holy shit, like this month was really tough, or whatever. Like you’re not gonna spiral cuz you’re like, okay, I understand that. This is why I feel this way and like we can now I can deal with it versus just being like, oh my god.

Zena: I like that, you say putting a name to it because I always plan with purpose and so I’m a huge bucket person, right? Okay, so we’ve got this bucket and we’ve got that bucket and we’re saving for this bucket. And I’m also about that planning with purpose means that if, I use that example of like football and hockey fees and they’re due in September, October. , you have 12 months. Knowing for most, not everybody knows right away. It might be a, it might be a whim, but you know that’s gonna come up. So how do we plan with purpose to alleviate the guilt and stress? Why don’t we start a savings bucket? Christmas too we’ve started, we have a holiday money challenge. And it started because a client said that, they, they have a monthly, and this is years and years ago, and I had the light bulb on, I’m like, Why don’t I do that? And it was a savings bucket for Christmas. Every month they put a hundred or $200 in there so that Christmas spending is guilt-free. And they don’t have that hangover in January of guilt whether or not they had the money. It was the fact that they hadn’t planned for it and had dipped into a bucket that they hadn’t wanted to. And it just made them feel broke, even though they had enough money. So I was like, you’re right. So yeah, planning with purpose will alleviate everything too, and naming it right. 

Janelle: Yeah. I really like that technique. And ties into one of the other questions I had was how does your money mindset impact some of your day-to-day decisions? Or how can that mindset around money be working for you or against you? And with you naming it, it’s almost, then your money, there’s a plan for it and it’s going to work for you in terms of the plan that you’ve got laid out for it versus being reactive and then it almost working against you and that universal message of love attraction. And so if you’ve just got this money and it’s out there for sure, but you haven’t put a place for it. It’s just there, but not really. Designated with a place to go or I don’t know if you have something else to add to that or your thoughts on that law’s law of attraction approach to money?

Zena: Yeah, I have a bit of a personal story, and Nicole, we’ll have to talk after and you can financially plan me off the edge… I think I’ve talked myself off the edge, but for me, so this is interesting cuz it ties into comparison and it also ties into money mindset. So for me, it’s about whether I should move. And, thinking I might want a little bit more space, getting a bigger house. We have a very, it’s finished, well done, renovated house, but it’s small in cathedral area, but everything’s done in it. It doesn’t need any changes. It’s upgraded, updated plumbing, it’s dry, but it’s a little bit small, and then this comparison kicks in. Then like you are a professional, like you, like you can afford something, so then I get on the real estate and I’m like, oh, this house is nice. And knowing that I can afford these things and yes, I would be approved for this mortgage. And then it spirals cuz then you’re like, oh, but I deserve, like I, I think I deserve this now. Like I’ve worked really hard and we’re, we’re in a really great place now. , and you let that spiral. And then I come back and I take a great big breath and I’m like, what are your values in us? So I’ve actually done our family values and our family values and it centers around a little bit of money. Imagine that is freedom. And so it’s that empowerment piece that we talked about earlier at the very beginning of this. And for my family, it’s financial freedom. Meaning that we have the freedom cuz we travel, to pay cash for things and both our families live in a different provinces. We go away. I like to travel a lot and see them down south. You name it, I need financial freedom. To do that. And so then I come back to my values and I’m like getting a mortgage wouldn’t be financial freedom for you anymore. Zena, you probably wouldn’t be able to, on a whim, go with your mom to Europe and take her on this bucket list trip and do all these things that you wanna do so it’s oh, reel it in. Zena, what are your values? And I come back to that all the time, freedom, and opportunity to do things. And so it’s interesting, so when you say Nicole, even as a financial planner, we have these gremlins and I think just knowing it, talking about it, is that you can reel it in when you know your values and you’ve talked about your money story, as a family, what your goals are then when you have those moments, even as a financial planner, You can come back to the Oh, yeah. Okay. I don’t need to do that. I don’t need to pull a crazy, I call it a check yourself before you wreck yourself. Moment. 

Janelle: I love that. You know what, that’s so interesting and something that we’re not taught about in school or, some families may go into those conversations, but. It’s so important to understand what your values are as an individual too and how that ties to all aspects of your life, and that’s your grounding point, right? When you, these things come up and it’s like you get caught up in, in the hype of doing all of these things or buying the new house and traveling, but it’s, circling back to your values and what’s so important to you. And if it is aligned, then great, but if it’s not, it’s okay, how can I reconsider this? Yeah, I love that. , right? 

Zena: Because my, so for example, my kids are outta the house. I don’t need that space. And it would’ve been completely different, at a different time in life. And a different family would have a different perspective right? As well. So it’s, we can’t really judge and define our values onto somebody else, but we have to definitely do that check. 

Nicole: Yeah… Yeah. It’s been something have you guys, oh shit, I’m forgetting the name of the book, but Morgan Housel wrote it like the Psychology of Money. Love it. I reference it probably way too much. But he talks about this concept of, cuz we live, I mean we live in a world where more is more. And so I think we just get, and so going back to what you were saying, Zena like it is so important to reevaluate Kay, what are our values though? Cuz you could keep going and going until who knows? And so he has this whole concept of. To that value talk or that value, conversation. But he’s what’s enough? And asking yourself what’s enough or like what, cuz I feel like sometimes we get there and then we’re like, okay, so we made it this is where this is what we were going for. But for whatever reason, the goalpost is moved up now and we want more. And it’s like, why? And if that’s still aligned with values, great. But it’s. He just, yeah. He talks a little bit about the fact that the conversation is what does enough mean to people, and it’s gonna mean different things to different people. But that should be part of the conversation as well, is, do you need more or are you happy? Are you content? Is this what you wanted? And this is great now so yeah. Like it’s just in a world where, like I said, bigger is better, more is better, they’re like you work hard you’ve grinded, you’ve done all these things. So like you deserve the big things and you do. But it… If that’s not important, then who cares? If that’s not something that you need or you value or whatever, it’s, yeah, there’s that when is enough kinda thing. , yeah. 

Zena: Study of how much money above and beyond will bring extra happiness. And there’s actually a threshold, and I thought it was 70 some thousand and I can’t remember the exact amount but it was basically, once you make you know that amount, your happiness doesn’t just increase with more money that you make it’s a completely different separate ball of wax. After that, once you’ve met those needs, you need monetary to live an okay life, and after that happiness is defined separately. 

Nicole: Yeah. There is something he wrote like Mark Cuban. , I think he’s worth four or 5 billion, like just his lands of dollars but he was saying like, he got into this and he like wrote this kind of piece about he’s in the billionaires club, so he’s comparing it to other billionaires. So Jeff Bezos, who has I don’t know what is it, like 50, 70 billion now. And he was like, oh man. That’s the goal that’s where I wanna end up. And then he’s had to like check with myself being like, shut the hell up, man. Like you’re a billionaire. So it, it’s funny like it’s all relative I guess, cuz it’s de depending like a new level, new devil, right? Like you just get to a certain point and then you just, yeah so like you think someone who’s totally set, he even, and he was like acknowledging the fact, and that’s what the whole article was about, was just that I’m a billionaire. I don’t need more money. I’m good. But even to him, like his circle, like he felt like the loser basically. So it’s just, it’s funny like we’re just, it’s very human to feel that way.

Zena: Yeah. We definitely have gremlins. Yeah. Yeah. In our head that just sometimes don’t tell you all the right things. Yeah, totally. 

Janelle: So that kind of ties nicely into the next thing I wanted to touch on, and that was around limiting beliefs with money. And so whether it is, I’m not worthy of, I’m not worthy of earning more money, or I’m not good with money, so I’m just gonna ignore it and, pray for the best kind of thing. But when you encounter clients with those limiting beliefs, what. What do you do or how do you support them to change those beliefs or replace them with something different? 

Nicole: I think like I see a lot of so it’s funny with so many clients, honestly, most of them, they come in feeling yeah, like a certain way. And it’s usually not negative, but they feel down on themselves. They’re like, I am, I hear this one all the time I’m not a money person. I’ve never been a money person. I just, don’t do it. I don’t deal with it, whatever. But then when we start getting into even just like questions or conversations, no, you’re very competent and you’re like, almost like innately a planner. And it’s funny cause I think people don’t give themselves enough credit. So you like to, the limiting beliefs thing, I think they’ve got this narrative in their head going that I suck at money. It’s never been my thing. So even. I guess maybe just like from our perspective as a planner, the reassurance piece is part of it too. Just saying, listen, like you’re not as bad as you think you are, kind of thing. And so that’s one thing. And then also education. Like I, you probably see that too, Zena, like as soon as you start just I guess not educating, but helping people understand money in terms of their own money, because like I think a lot of things get thrown around in like terms and all that kind of stuff, but when you can tie it back to your own situation and make sense of it for you, not just like in general terms. Like that kind of starts to help as well in a way. 

Zena: Yeah. We have a know-your-client form that you have to fill out every couple of years. And on there’s the question. Would you consider yourself, poor, fair, good, or sophisticated in your knowledge? , I always say nowhere in there is a box for learning. And so if someone starts at poor, we’re, by the time after a year or two working with each other, you’re gonna be moving up the ranks because this is all about building your confidence and your knowledge and I always. Think of that questionnaire. Cause it just irks me. Cause I’m like, you can see the other person being like, I don’t really know anything, so you know, you have to check off the poor box and I’m like, ah, this is just worded so awful. Yeah. And we all have to start somewhere. And I think that it’s that financial knowledge and peace is that if someone says that exactly what you said, Nicole, if someone says that, oh, I’m not good with money. And you’re like you know what? , we’re gonna be working together and so we’re g You’re gonna get there. And think one thing that women are amazing at doing is asking for directions and help and in knowing that seeing A certified financial planner, it’s because you know that you’d like some guidance and expertise. And so I think that’s the main piece is that. , no matter what limiting belief we tell ourselves it’s okay to say, Hey, pull out the map and the GPS and look. Ask for directions.

Janelle: There’s so many people willing to help. You just need to ask for it, right? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Okay. You’ve also shared some resources and worksheets with us that kind of help step through your money story and help define what your relationship with money might be like. So can you talk a little bit about the resources that we will link on the humble website and how individuals can step through and work through them individually?

Zena: I actually don’t have them in front of me, but I think I remember because they’re from an old workshop that I did an online course so really the idea is to just start talking about it, right? Just open it up. Do the worksheets. What are your memories? What are some limiting beliefs you have? And actually putting it to paper, there is magic in paper. I’ve tried to write blog posts on my phone and it’s just not the same as paper and paper equals magic. And so once you start actually jotting things down and having that conversation, it’s just gonna stick with you. It doesn’t mean that there’s gonna be some magic light bulb and, fairy godmother coming and going to fix everything. It’s more of that, just that back in your head. Okay. Wait, is this a real fear that I have, or is this just coming from a different place? And so it’s just about tackling and starting to talk about it. That’s it. What are your limiting beliefs? What are your value system? And having that conversation with your partner. . . 

Janelle: That’s awesome. I think there was a lot of good information shared, but if I can summarize it into kind of three key points that we talked about today. It is that awareness, talking about it naming it, I love that. Put a plan to it, plan with purpose, and then what are your values and assessing all of that back against your values and moving forward from. Is there anything else I missed? Did you guys, did you have anything else to add? 

Zena: No, I think it’s reaching out, right? Find a goal, reach out, and just find that coaching. Everybody needs it. 

Janelle: Yeah. Okay. So for individuals wanting more information, and looking to reach out, how can they get ahold of you? 

Nicole: They can find, so I work at Wolf Fund Financial and we’ve got a website, so you can just hop on the website and all of our profiles are there and you can email me directly through the website. I also have an Instagram page it’s just Nicole Put CFP is my handle. You can find me on there. But yeah, probably email is the best way. But I’m taking off on a mat leave pretty quick here, I won’t be super involved for a little bit, but Yeah. But no, but definitely email. That’s, that’s something I’m always checking, so that’d be the best way for sure.

Janelle: Okay. And Zena, 

Zena: astrafinancial.ca and then also there’s a book on Amazon, Heart of Your Money, and it’s for women, and that might be a nice starter there as well. 

Janelle: Amazing. Thank you so much, Zena and Nicole for your time today. 

Thank you for having us. Yeah, it was great. 

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